Separation?! Please help me =(

[Chris_ld]

I have really been trying to avoid asking you this question, because I guess you have got it many times.
I have read through your book now 5 times and watched your seminars, but how am I supposed to now if I can enter the phase if I don't know how to do it?
Here is what I know:
Separation is an attempt to separate from the body without using physical muscles, but not using imaginations. Do you mean that I am suppose to want to separate and when I feel the real sensation I have separated? But that IS IMAGINATION...
Or am I suppposed to try to roll out, get out of bed and hopefully I am in the phase ?
And also how do I know if it's a lucid dream or an obe, because if it's a lucid dream I reality check, but if it's a obe it's to vivid for me to even realise it is an obe.
And yes I have read forum threads too =(
Sorry, but I just had to ask you :/

Anyway, this night I am just going to get out of bed upon awakening and see what happens.

[wiii]

Do you mean that I am suppose to want to separate and when I feel the real sensation I have separated? But that IS IMAGINATION...

Mr Raduga says in his book,that when you try to separate,or using techniques for separation,you should not ONLY imagine the movements but you nedd to FEEL REAL SENSATION of movement,of course it is your imagination,but the sensations must me real!
And when you feel real sensation does not mean necessarly that you have separated,it means you are in THE PHASE,and you should then try separation technigues only after the movements are very real!

Or am I suppposed to try to roll out, get out of bed and hopefully I am in the phase ?

Try to roll out only after you feel real sensations of movements,not rolling out of the bed and hope you are in the phase! Try to get real sensations of movement and when you get those you are already in the phase and you can then roll out without any doubts that you could fell out of bed with your phisycal body!

So you should try to separate only after you feel real sensations of movement,Mr raduga do not says DO NOT TRY TO IMAGINE he says DO NOT ''ONLY'' IMAGINE THE SENSATIONS  BUT TRY TO FEEL THEM like you are really doing it and in a moment the imagination will be replaced with real movement!
So use your imagination too but only imagination will be not enough,you must try to feel what you are doing,and when the perception is very real then you should separate!
That is my opinion,but MR. Raduga knows best!!


wiii

[Rudolph]

I think the idea is that this is not going to feel like imagination. It will feel real. Once you are in the Phase the rollout will feel just like you are going to roll over and fall to the floor.

After you have done this a couple times it will make complete sense.

What I do is lay there and sort of wobble a little and get a rocking motion going first. Just for a few seconds. When I am not in the phase it feels like nothing is happening but if you stay relaxed and focused and if you do this exactly upon awakening, it kicks in. Once the wobble feels like I am in the phase, then I do a full rollout.

But I have also done this where I do a full rollout toward my wife and if the phase kicks in I just roll back out the other way and stand up, OBE at my side of the bed. It is just like the DVD shows, except maybe a little more spinning.

[Chris_ld]

Thank you so much wii and Rudolph, now it makes perfect sense.
Hopefully I will understand it completely after some more attempts.
"The problem" ^^ is that I often seem to get a lucid dream and not start out in my room.
But if I try separation techniques in the beggining of my attempt it might work.
So Separation techniques are imaginations "tests" and when I feel the real sensation I can separate for real? Anyway thank you so much!

How about my other question? How do I know it is a lucid dream or an obe and how do I go from an obe to a lucid dream? The book sais that obes are more vivid and to get a obe from an obe I should try to get back to my physical body and try to get the obe. Is this correct?

[Rudolph]

I think that is really hard to know that. I read forums where a lot of people talk about what I consider is more like a Lucid Dream and they are considering it an OBE. It really is not that important. Just start projecting in the morning a few times and pretty soon you will know for yourself. Besides, many hard core OBE's dissolve into Lucid Dreams too. So it is not a simple on/off yes/no kinda thing.

[wiii]

If you have a Lucid Dream it means you are in the phase,th difference between a LD and OBE is how much awareness comes with the phase you are in,or to put it in other words,how much lucidity can you bring to your Lucid Dream?I think a LD with full lucidity =OBE!
So if you are LD you should not go back at your body to try separate,you are already separated,if you have LD, do deepening as MR Raduga says in his book,and then mantaining:D
Separation will be attempted if you use indirect techniques upon awakening,to help you get into the phase,but if you LD you are already in the phase:P
I only had LD's until now,and when i have them i separate there where i am,if i am on a field,i separate there,but is not necesarly to separate if you LD,in most cases i just float in the air,and i do not need to separate form nothing,it is easyer this way!
If you have LD"s you should use them ,do deepening,and mantaining,and always have a plan of actions!Before you go to bed,think of what you would like to do in the phase for example(visit the moon,or visit a deceased relative) plans of actions works as mantaining!
Only once i felt like i was in my bed,and it felt strange ..and i separated so easyly,i just standed up,but i somehow felt like it was a false awakening...and i just stood up ..it is true i had no vision,and no equilibrium...i went along with the wall near my bed...palpating it...and i got equilibrium then i just flipped my hands before my eyes and vision came in:P
Remember,if you have LD do depening you are already in the phase:P



wiii

[Michael Raduga]

Relax, do not analyse it. Just try to do it somehow in the right moment.

When you will get it, you will think "Waw, it is so easy!". It is realy easy in the right moment. It is in 100 times easier than you may think.

All is very simple: if you feel performance of any technique upon awakening - you feel it by your phase body, not by the real body. That is why you should just stand up or roll out BY YOUR OWN sensations as if you whant to do it by your real body.

Only one suggestion - do not analyze, do not imagine, do it somehow by any means in the right moment. It works at my seminars

[Chris_ld]

Haha you were right 
Last night I had a conscious awakening and I tried the separation technique and try to get out of bed. Nothing happend so I started to observe images and suddenly I saw images, not physical images, but it was like I believed that I saw them. I observered them passively and not focued on the details. But instead of trying separation technique here, I started to think about what I wanted to do in my lucid dream, and I suddenly were in my school. But the experience were switching from dream to vivid thought back and forth until I finally realised that it wasn't a vivid thought and I were in the dream. But I know see what you mean about phantom body and separation technique. But then phantom wiggling seems like a nice technique for me to try out because maybe then I will have more control of my separation.
I just wanted to say that every time I have try this techniques now in school days anyway, they have given me a lucid dream! Thank you so much! But now I will work harder on separating in my bed room.

[Michael Raduga]

I started to observe images and suddenly I saw images, not physical images, but it was like I believed that I saw them. I observered them passively and not focued on the details. But instead of trying separation technique here, I started...

You see your mistakes but think about it more.
In videos and in books it is said hundreds times that you should try to separate immediately when feel a technique is working. You are in the phase in this moment. If you will not do it in a few seconds, you will lose the phase state. In 90% of attempts novices lose the phase by this mistake.

[yunana]

you will know by the feeling,mostly when the technic works you know how to do it...this is it we are there !

[Felcas]

I am getting the feeling but no sucess to separate and I lose the phase. I am a bit clumsy when I wake, I dont remember well what to do, and i take more time then 3 5 seconds. Maybe this is a matter of practice?

[john_in_houston]

yes it is partly a matter of practice. when you emerge from the sleeping state you have just a few seconds before you become fully awake. during those seconds you first try to separate for 3 to 5 seconds, if that doesnt work, you start cycling 2 or 3 techniques for 1 minute. when one of them starts to work stay with it, try to strengthen it. when you are able to leave your body you will feel it. and again, you move but without moving a physical muscle of your body.

but back to basics: go to sleep, sleep 4 to 6 hours. wake up. go back to sleep with the intention, upon awakening, of making an attempt to enter the phase. awaken without opening your eyes or moving your body. immediately try to separate. that works in 50% of successful obe's. if separation doesnt work in 3 to 5 seconds, go to cycling 2 or 3 techniques for 3 to 5 seconds apiece until you feel one of them start to work. if after 4 cycles of 2 or 3 techniques you get no success, go back to sleep. again with the intention of not moving or opening your eyes when awakening, and making an attempt to enter the phase.

the fact that you are practicing and trying tells me you are on the right track.

if you need more help email me at [email protected] and I'll lead you through the rest of the way. it is not that hard.

john merritt