Re: Personal Proof

[kirolak]

Hi, I've just joined your discussion group after downloading your wonderful e-book, for which I cannot thank you enough!  It is clear, non-mystical, & forthright, I shall be putting all your advice into practise (as soon as I'm over this flu!)

I have been out of body many times, but with little control & varying degrees of lucidity; but what stands out as a verifiable experience for me is this:  I met an old friend, who I had not even thought about for many years, in the astral one night; he was pleased to see me, but also worried,  & greeted me with the words, , 'Oh no, you too!  What are you doing in the land of the dead?"

I explained I was just visiting, & he said he had not known that was possible.

Later, I investigated his whereabouts and found he had died of cancer about 5 years before our encounter; so to me this was absolute proof.

Since then, I have had contact with an old "soul mate" who committed suicide, & various others.

[Michael Raduga]

You can get information from the phase. It isn't depend on point of view you have: mystic or pragmatic. It is possible anyway. For example there is a lot of chances that you already had had this information (suspicion) about friend's death but cannot clearly see it. Only in the phase it became clearly for you.

[Jeff]

Very interesting kirolak. I had a similar encounter that proved, to myself,that the 'phase' is much more than simple electro-chemical brain impulses.

I actually agree with both of you. I suspect that ourselves, and the physical and nonphysical worlds, are interconnected parts of some kind of information processor.

I think personally that Thomas Cambell's "My Big TOE" may be a good description of reality.

[Chris_ld]

When I enter the phase again I have prepared a test to see if it really is an out of body experience in the physical world. I let my dad write a 3 digit numer on a piece of paper that I didn't see and I put it in a box. When I enter the phase I will open this box and ask my dad the next morning if it was correct. If it is, I don't know what I will do o.O

[Michael Raduga]

And now just try to imagine how many thousands of practitioners have already done this test)))  Dispite of no results, every novice whants to do the same. It helps me to understand practical levels of practitioners.

[Jeff]

I believe the mistake in this test is believing that one is 'in' the physical world when out of body.

In my experience,though there may be similarities; there are many misplaced and changed objects. Passing through a ceiling or doorway yields an entirely different environment altogether-clearly unlike the physical world. I've personally found that the closer my OOB environment resembles the physical;the weaker and more unstable or volitile the experience is-often resulting in a foul.( this may be just me though)

This does not mean that information cannot be acquired though...Someways that I have brought back coherent information are: Interactions with sentient 'dream characters' and paying attention to overall symbolic representations.

There are probably more ways that I have not found yet. One interesting method is to call out a request to the surrounding phase space itself-Robert Waggoner style.

[JorgeLTE]

I like to interpret the phase as a non-physical world that lies in everybody's mind, and is unique for each person. Like living completely inside your own mind. So it's COMPLETELY UNRELATED to the physical world.

Although, sometimes I find that sharing a phase experience would be quite awesome, and I hope that after concluding my career, I can help to develop the technology necessary to make it real.

As Mike Raduga said, the Matrix is possible.

[Summerlander]

I wouldn't say it is completely unrelated to the physical world. Dreams can relate to waking life quite closely, for example. The Phase can also unravel a lot that you apparently didn't know about the world. Then you get 'bonuses'. these are impressions that manifest clearly there which you do not perceive while you are awake.

Everything is related because everything is somehow connected. Let's not forget that Carl Jung concluded the existence of a personal and a collective unconscious mind. I have carried out experiments of my own by visiting people. My experiences seemed to make more sense to them than me. I'd either see the 'gist' of what they were doing in actuality or manifestations that they claimed were "on their minds". My visits yielded results everytime. Then again, they could be coincidences. You decide.

I suspect that the Phase worlds do relate to the physical quite closely. In fact, I think there is even a structure reality that can explain it away. The word physical is only a concept that we invented. If this world is physical and real...then so is what you experience subjectively. It may be that thoughts are actual in another frequency of reality lying beyond the ultrasonic and thus remains undetected by our apparatuses...so far anyway!

Because they are so beyond the vibrations of this world, they can exist independently and yet connected to this world. It's like a different note on a keyboard. From having observed the Phase environments I have no doubt that quantum mechanics have something to do with it and their existence can be clearly viewed from an extra-dimensional perspective.

If you are interested in the theory, check out the Thomas Campbell's My Big TOE trilogy (as Jeff mentioned). He's a nuclear physicist whose theory seems to make sense and it could actually work. Reality could be 'computerised' and consciousness is nothing magical, it is simply the ground of all being.

[JorgeLTE]

I want to apologize for my last comment. I didn't explained myself correctly.
Of course there is a direct relationship between the phase and the physic world. WHAT I MEAN is that you can't expect to find the same world structure in both worlds, so performing the experiment about hiding a number inside a box is pointless.

I know that there is people who had successfully performed the above experiment, but I have a different hypothesis.
They didn't extracted the information from the physical world. May be everybody is connected in the phase, and the number they saw in the phase, wasn't a projection of the physical world, but a projection of the memories of the person who wrote the numbers, which are non-physical, like everything in the phase.

Scientific are starting to agree with theories about the "physical world" is just an illusion.

I agree with your point of view.
I will take a look to "My big TOE trilogy", and I invite you to watch a movie called "What the bleep do we know?", which actually talks about quantum theories and reality. It changed my point of view about the reality.

Sorry for my last comment... I don't know what was I thinking. Actually I have dualistic beliefs and I'm completely opposed to the persons who don't believe in nothing else than the physical body.
The next time I post a comment, I will be more careful explaining myself. Promise.

[Summerlander]

I want to apologize for my last comment. I didn't explained myself correctly.
Of course there is a direct relationship between the phase and the physic world. WHAT I MEAN is that you can't expect to find the same world structure in both worlds, so performing the experiment about hiding a number inside a box is pointless.

Sure! Absolutely! There is no guarantee that you will see the actual number. Two possible reasons: Reality is not that simple or it doesn't work that way if one indeed travels extra-dimensionally in the Phase state...OR...it is all illusions concocted by the brain and thus, if the brain does know what the number is, then all it is doing is "wild guessing" by using the subconscious.

I know that there is people who had successfully performed the above experiment, but I have a different hypothesis.
They didn't extracted the information from the physical world. May be everybody is connected in the phase, and the number they saw in the phase, wasn't a projection of the physical world, but a projection of the memories of the person who wrote the numbers, which are non-physical, like everything in the phase.

I suspect this is true too. In fact, I've had my fair share of seemingly telepathic Phase experiences. I think you will like this guy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rupert_Sheldrake

On the other hand, which resonates more with the Thomas Campbell view (and I think both views could go together), I devised this analogy and posted it on Pulse but here it is:

"Recently, I've been thinking about the physical realm like a PowerPoint presentation. This kind of presentation needs to look professional or acceptable. It needs to make sense too. It should, in purpose, be impressive to the individuals who view it. To compose the presentation, you need to create a template (bearing in mind that a whole array of templates is possible/available) using a standard layout and consistent formatting. That's where the Slide Master option comes in.

If the "Normal View" of slides is the physical realm experience, then the Slide Master option is the Phase state. The Slide Master on PowerPoint (the program!) transcends Normal View. Slide Master is not an actual mode of experience like Normal View, though. It is the limbo where ideas and creativity are expressed. Its existence, although experienced as though it's actual while you play in that mode, is still theoretical and not yet applied to Normal View until you select the "Apply To All" option and play the presentation in order to decide whether it is suitable or not.

So, in the Slide Master limbo, anything goes as fas as reality is concerned - the impossible is possible there. There may even be many different levels of that limbo, where some are closer to this physical universe idea than others. The template for this universe has long been created in the levels that transcend it and the template has been evolving in Normal View ever since - albeit slowly (just like in PowerPoint where you can change the template in Normal View but what you can do there is limited compared to what you can do in Slide Master).

When we enter the Phase, we can play with the various Slide Master options, so to speak, but we don't have the "Apply To All" option there. at least not that I know of. I haven't discovered it. If we did, in theory, we'd be able to affect the physical realm directly from the Phase state and create tulpas all over the place.

In the Phase, our minds can create things spontaneously. Perhaps these ideas manifest in various physical realities once they 'decay' from the non-physical limbo. As far as I'm aware, the creation and evolution of objects and beings in this world are eventuated by an unconscious function within the program...at least from our current perspective. It's like PowerPoint creations being updated as we try things out.

You can insert images or backgrounds on the Slide Master, position place holders, format text styles and add standard text. This configuration is then automatically applied to all the slides in the presentation."

Scientific are starting to agree with theories about the "physical world" is just an illusion.

It may be that the physical realm is a more persistent dream environment...a more condensed reality which is intrinsically made of the same energy as dreams. Tibetan Buddhists consider everything to be consciousness. Interestingly, the quantum level of physical reality appears to behave in a similar fashion to the macro level of a dreamworld.

I agree with your point of view.
I will take a look to "My big TOE trilogy", and I invite you to watch a movie called "What the bleep do we know?", which actually talks about quantum theories and reality. It changed my point of view about the reality.

Please do. I think you will love it. Suddenly, the reality of the waking world and the reality experienced in the Phase will start to make sense. You may also like this guy:

http://www.astralpulse.com/frankkepple.html

I've seen that video, by the way! It is very interesting and certainly food for thought. I particularly liked John Hagelin and Amit Goswami. You may also want to get your hands on Goswami's Physics of the Soul (which references experiments like the double-slit with electrons along with his theoretical model of reality). He seems keen on showing that the Tibetan Book of the Dead is right. All is consciousness.

Sorry for my last comment... I don't know what was I thinking. Actually I have dualistic beliefs and I'm completely opposed to the persons who don't believe in nothing else than the physical body.
The next time I post a comment, I will be more careful explaining myself. Promise.

No need to apologise. I have done the same thing before. It is a genuine mistake and I know exactly where you are coming from. I have actually said things that later came to realise to be contradictions of what really resonates with me. When people pointed things out to me I suddenly became aware of the fact that I thought as they did in the first place! LOL!

I have trouble with the materialistic view too. There are too many gaps and in the end it is just a creed like any other. My suspicions are stronger on the possibility that the mind extends beyond the physical, it transcends it, and it is responsible for creating things on this level of reality. We unconsciously grow our brains in my opinion, not the other way around. Just as thoughts exert influence in the non-physical environments, so it is in the physical but on a slower and not-so-apparent level. It's like giraffes' ungulate ancestors having short necks aeons ago and looking up at acacia trees and wishing that they could reach for the nutrients. They looked like antelopes then but many millennia later, voila...long-necked giraffes. It took all that time - in this level of reality - for their wish to come true. Hence consciousness is always looking for more efficient ways to improve. This world is an idea in the making...



As for us, I think intrinsically, we are the empty void which is full of overlapping realities existing in their designated vibratory frequencies. It's a "full-void" as someone once described it here. As long as there is something happening in this void, we will always experience something. This, to me, is more probable than the view that affirms this physical reality to be the only existent one.

Sometime ago people thought what they could hear was the only sound waves there were...until new technology revealed ultrasonic frequencies. One day, I suspect, science will acknowlege other extensions of reality - levels where thoughts have a more defined structure.

[NOVA]

You're onto it Summerlander. 


This is a Dream and you are projecting your thoughts. Just as in OBE.
There is nobody out there.

I, I who AM NOTHING. "An Empty Void"

Row, row, row your boat gently down the stream, merrily, merrily life is but a dream

[Summerlander]

LOL!

You've said it all in a few words!