Re: Killing in the Phase.

LucidDreaming · Post by **LucidDreaming** » Wed Dec 28, 2011 5:19 pm

I have tried various things in the Phase. But the subject of killing a human being has always threatened me. If I remember correctly, LaBerge used to say that it shoudn't be tried. What about you? Have you thought about trying it or have you tried it?

Montana · Post by **Montana** » Wed Dec 28, 2011 5:54 pm

When it comes to issues of moral consequence, it is not unreasonable to assume as a working guideline that one ought not do things in other realms what one would be disinclined to do in this one.

12padams · Post by **12padams** » Wed Dec 28, 2011 7:54 pm

If the phase is a simulation of real life created by the mind there would be simulated consequences and a terrible feeling of guilt. The consequences could be avoided if you believed they could but the guilt would remain.

If the phase is something a little more real then you would literally be causing harm and upset something "real". You may be personnaly punished by it or it's companions.

Either way your looking at future phases involving either paying for the simulated consequence or suffering from the real consequences. No matter what the phase is the image of killing another human/creature will remain in your mind and haunt you for life...

Should you do it... That's entirely up to you. Do I reccomend it... No

LucidDreaming · Post by **LucidDreaming** » Wed Dec 28, 2011 8:10 pm

I guess you are both right. The image of someone dying might stay in your head forever. And in the real world, I would never kill a human being. Still... I'm not over this question. It's still in my mind.

12padams · Post by **12padams** » Wed Dec 28, 2011 8:53 pm

Well if its not gonna get out of your head until you do it... just do it. A thought often will stay in your head and distract you from your plan of actions within the phase. This morning I had a phase experience with very low lucidity... I didn't carry out my plan of action but I finally used my own method of translocation.

The problem was that I had about 3 uncompleted plan of actions and other things I wanted to try out in the phase. This lead to confusion on what to do and made me completely forget my current plan of action.

So if you really wish to kill something despite my warning just do it. The more you stumble/don't make up your mind the more phase experiences you will ruin

Jeff · Post by **Jeff** » Thu Dec 29, 2011 3:54 am

Killing "DCs" in the phase seems to be extremely popular among some posters at Dream Views. It seems that the people who do this,do so repeatedly and hold the belief that "DCs" are not 'real'.You can read about it there and get a feel for it,but you will also see,IMO,very immature attitudes along with this behavior.It seems like they see the phase as a kind of video game generated by the brain and nothing much more.

And though there are DCs who certainly appear to be mindless;as you may know, there are others that show every indication of being self conscious agents.So,IMO, if there is even the slightest chance that some are in fact 'real' in some way that is not conventionally acknowledged,then killing them certainly raises dilemmas.Of course for those like the folks at DVs,this is not even a possibilty.

So anyway:
Ernest Hilgard's experiments ,and other data from dissociative identity disorder, shows that we can and do have multiple centers of awareness within our psyches.So even if they are not 'real' you would be symbolically 'killing' part of yourself.I really can't see how that could be a good thing in anyway...

I agree with 12 padams.

Phanes · Post by **Phanes** » Fri Dec 30, 2011 12:21 am

Killing should only be made when it's the last resort to defend yourself and your own family (and in some cases other people). People should only kill because they HAVE to not because they want to whether this is in the physical aspect or not. If you're jumped in the phase or in a dream and there's nothing left to do but to kill them to save your own skin then do it but don't go out there and randomly kill someone innocent whether you believe they're real or not.

CKing71 · Post by **CKing71** » Fri Dec 30, 2011 5:19 pm

From The NDE File:
Killing and dying, in phase, is one and the same experience, is it not? I've been hit by trucks on freeways and ground-up under the wheels many times. I've fallen from cliffs and buildings and splattered on pavement and bounced off rocks. I've burned alive many times rescuing others from dream fires, and as others have done, I've breathed under water and drowned in swimming pools as well.

Haven't you?

My phase experience ends of course, but typically I find myself in another situation of personal interest. If one kills another in phase, the act may be, an agreement between all parties, for the experience its self, the feelings behind, such an act.
It something that one so interested, need explore on their own. A persons death is highly personal and intimate. Some problems you may encounter are how deep your connections to waking reality are.

When one animal kills and eats another is it murder or hate full? I think not. It's more of an agreement between the two where one allows the other to live by giving its self, selflessly, knowing there is no death in the first place. death as thought of in waking reality, never occurs.

So one must ask, is it even possible to kill another? If you answer yes, you may need to examine how deep your connection to this reality is. If such things disturb you, your connections are truly very deep and they must be examined.

Be Well

Rudolph · Post by **Rudolph** » Fri Dec 30, 2011 5:51 pm

If you don't understand that it really is possible to kill another than a serious reality check is in order. The inability to distinguish between physical action and phase/dream activity is almost the definition of 'psychotic'.

One thing that I have noticed in recent years is how many young people do not understand the difference between killing and murder.
There is a HUGE difference.

Anyone eating a hamburger is complicit in the killing and slaughter of a cow. But that does not make them accessories to murder.

If you kill someone and their body is dead, you really did kill them. Confusing the Consciousness with the body is not helpful at all on any level.

CKing71 · Post by **CKing71** » Sat Dec 31, 2011 5:00 pm

From the NDE File:

I realize certain truths may sometimes offend one's intellect. This happens because of one's belief, is in a one true reality organization, which, is no more real or un-real than a phase reality.
I died in 2002, and returned to the reality I left. For me, death never occurs, it's only "ones grip", on a one true reality system, that dies, or is murdered by another. Even so one will always find themselves where they wish to be, regardless of humans laws or precepts.

Castigation is only effective if the victim hold a death grip on his or her reality.

Be well

Post by **Summerlander** » Sun Jan 01, 2012 8:58 pm

There is nothing wrong with entering the phase and beating the crap out of or even killing Ian Huntley. It is also understandable if you enter the phase and feel like strangling your boss if he's been abusive, disrespectful or a pain to you in waking life.

You can do all these things and more if they bring you pleasure provided that you KNOW that you are in the phase. I think people who have a hard time distinguishing between what is real and what isn't (due to mental problems) - even when they are fully awake - should not attempt to enter the phase in the first place.

We also have to remember that experience and opinions are very much subjective. What you might find mentally detrimental to your health, as in the case of performing certain actions in the phase which are regarded to be unethical by the majority, might be deemed to be quite therapeutical for others. It all depends on how you look at things. This is based on the simple fact that two individuals with the same problem might react differently to it and with different side-effects - be it depression or joy from having learned from the experience.

Barnacle · Post by **Barnacle** » Sat May 19, 2012 10:19 am

I often accidentally kill dream characters but when I'm actually trying to kill them its not so easy. For some reason shooting people never works for me. I could pull the trigger point blank but nothing happens. Stabbing them and slicing them with a knife on the other hand works. Its a pretty unpleasant experience killing a DC with a knife but sometimes I have no choice because they're coming at me with a knife and getting stabbed or slashed in the phase hurts like hell. Last week or so, I had this dream where I was at a conference table with a bunch of business men and I became lucid. One businessman was putting another one down and belittling him and I didn't like it so I started strangling him with his tie, then we got up and were about to fight but I slammed his head into the side of a doorway and he died. I felt guilty about it then a swarm of zombie children invaded the ship (yeah the conference room was in a ship lol) and everyone made a run for it. Luckily I got away before being cannabilised by them.

sarakkatz · Post by **sarakkatz** » Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:42 am

Barnacle wrote: I often accidentally kill dream characters but when I'm actually trying to kill them its not so easy. For some reason shooting people never works for me. I could pull the trigger point blank but nothing happens. Stabbing them and slicing them with a knife on the other hand works. Its a pretty unpleasant experience killing a DC with a knife but sometimes I have no choice because they're coming at me with a knife and getting stabbed or slashed in the phase hurts like hell. Last week or so, I had this dream where I was at a conference table with a bunch of business men and I became lucid. One businessman was putting another one down and belittling him and I didn't like it so I started strangling him with his tie, then we got up and were about to fight but I slammed his head into the side of a doorway and he died. I felt guilty about it then a swarm of zombie children invaded the ship (yeah the conference room was in a ship lol) and everyone made a run for it. Luckily I got away before being cannabilised by them.

Don't you think all your dreams are full of violence or you dream something normal or beautiful also $:-\$