SURVIVAL OF CONSCIOUSNESS AFTER PHYSICAL DEATH

[eroxy]

Hi, guys. The idea of the phenomenon of consciousness being dependent on the physical brain's presence is a very disturbing thing, especially because that might mean total unconsciousness and fading of our selves into oblivion.

I did some research and here is some evidence presented for the case of the TRUTH OF THE AFTER LIFE and the SURVIVAL of CONSCIOUSNESS/ INDEPENDENCE OF CONSCIOUSNESS FROM PHYSICAL LIFE. I know that some of the sources of what they call reliable evidence can be argued to be THE PHASE, but there are other methods that they use that may be considered as something apart from the PHASE.

Here is the website:
http://www.victorzammit.com/book/4thedition/index.html

Here is the book you can download at this link:
http://nikmot.com/Books/2009_VictorZamm ... idence.pdf

or here:
http://www.brainybetty.com/2007Motivati ... life_1.pdf

One of the strong cases I found here was the thing on remote viewing. I haven't had remote viewing yet, but there were people there in the case study which made accurate descriptions of place for military research purposes/spying, and that is a conter-evidence for what people said the out of body experiences which try to determine physical locations of objects doesn't work.

Please do read the book or skim it and tell me what you think. Thanks!

Also, I'd like to share the quote which I think is very appropriate:

Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider. - Sir Francis Bacon

[Summerlander]

It is a known fact that the US government shut down the Stargate Project as it was officially concluded that reports from the best remote viewers were inconsistent.

[eroxy]

Hmmm, but does that really discount the fact that sometimes remote viewers are accurate? Or maybe they were just accurate by chance?

Also, what do you guys think about Electronic Voice Phenomenon, which supposedly makes the tape or recording machine record voices from the afterlife?

[Summerlander]

I work in the gaming industry. One can also look at the statistics. To cut a long story short, remote viewing is in tandem with the occasional coincidence. And then there is confirmation bias.

EVP is another one where people see, or in this case, hear, what is really not there. Like Christ on burn toast. On the afterlife, 150 years of neuroscience is quite telling don't you think? Either there is an afterlife where you have all the brain deficits and share this realm with individuals who are as cerebrally impaired, or, there isn't one because brain death means the annihilation of all your mental faculties. which one makes more sense to you?

[eroxy]

I see what you mean, where it seems to make more sense that consciousness is merely a byproduct of brain activity.

I am glad you brought up neuroscience and neurology, because I've read of a story of a neurologist who didn't believe in the afterlife because of the same belief that consciousness is merely a byproduct of brain activity, but after a certain experience where his brain was shut down, he claims to have experienced an afterlife reality which was supposedly "more real" than this physical one.

(It says on my Mac that the file can harm your computer if you download it. I downloaded it but my Mac's fine. Then I read it. Download at your own risk please.)
Check this out:
https://www.google.com.ph/url?sa=t&rct= ... 5248,d.aGc

If you're not willing to download it, you can buy the book or check out his sites here:
http://www.lifebeyonddeath.net/
http://www.eternea.org/

What do you think?

It must be cool to work with video games!

[Summerlander]

I've come across that charlatan before and refuted him countless times. He's just selling to the impressionable. In the Astral section of this forum you will find a sticky where I go in depth about this subject.

[eroxy]

Ah I see.

I wonder though, what do you think happens to our consciousness after physical death? Or are you an agnostic about it?

I'm curious to know your perspective.

[Summerlander]

I believe we lose it completely in the face of evidence. We simply go back to the state we were before we were. We simply weren't and we won't be if that makes sense. We simply are the universe physically manifest in a conscious form. In saying this, I do acknowledge that science does not answer everything. I'd be surprised to discover that I am conscious after physical death, in fact, I'd probably assume to be alive but in some sort of dreaming coma. There would be no way to know if I was in some sort of afterlife.

A sort of pseudo-afterlife could indeed manifest on your way out, and, before you know it, you're unconscious and don't know anything else. If we do have a conscious existence after we die in this universe, then it certainly won't be the heaven or hell described by the great monotheisms of the world, nor the objective spiritual realms propounded in New Age movements and Spiritualism.

At the moment, evidence appears to indicate that consciousness depends on brain function (however small the cortical reverberations in a near-dead individual). So my agnosticism almost dissipates. It is the same agnosticism that I have for the existence of fairies, unicorns, and fauns (never seen them). In other words: I don't believe in the afterlife and don't see any reason why I should.

If tomorrow, however, science shows definitive and verifiable proof that the afterlife is, after all, real, then I'll have a major paradigm shift.

[eroxy]

Ah, I see.

I think that I shall search for that evidence or way of finding out that can cause that major paradigm shift.

I'll let you know if I do find it.

[Summerlander]

Allow me to say that I highly doubt that you will find it. Maybe it doesn't exist because the opposite of what you believe happens to be true. But be my guest.

[bluremi]

It's a common failing of humanity that we often believe something because the alternative is unpleasant, and don't recognize what's going on.

[Summerlander]

I second that.

[Kate]

The problem is that we can discuss it forever but nobody knows what happens for sure and there is no way to prove either side. Of course, we do not want to believe in unpleasant - who would? But none of it is proven and there are so many things we do not know, it is just that this one concerns everyone.

[eroxy]

I understand the skepticism, and I think that it really is an unpleasant alternative to think that our lives end in death.

But hey, people used to believe that it was impossible to travel to the ends of the world because it's flat, and the explorers who had the daring and the belief it could be done proved that the world was spherical.

Well, if life ends after death, then it won't matter if we died in a few minutes, tomorrow, or a week after, because we won't remember anything anyway.

I'd like to keep looking for that Truth, though. At least it gives me and some people some hope that there's something more than what we experience now.

[Summerlander]

Your annihilation is only unpleasant when you think about it. It's unpleasant from the living perspective. It won't be unpleasant when you are dead because you simply won't be.

[eroxy]

Yeah, we won't know anyway about what we were conscious about if consciousness ends after physical death.

Well, whether there is consciousness after death or not (simply not being), I think it's a win-win situation. We can continue in our pursuit of truth and knowledge if it's the former, or we won't feel or remember a thing if it's the latter.

But who knows, maybe we can prove the former. Hahaha. Whether or not I prove it, I think it's something worthwhile to do so, all the while making the people in my life happy somehow in the simple happinesses of this world.

[Summerlander]

Ceasing to be at death would be as if this life never happened. Consciousness, along with memory, would dissipate. And without either of them, your sense of self, too. It would be as if you never even existed. We can attempt to imagine that death is like falling into the deepest of dreamless sleeps (even if it initially involves hallucinations that might be mistaken for the afterlife) and the further we fall we reach the blissful point of no return, the mighty oblivion is reached, and finally, nothingness. Not only do I think this is true, as neuroscience strongly suggests, but I also find it comforting. You are naturally freed of all conscious experience. There is no burden to be carried. In saying this, I am not advocating the idea that suicide is a wise thing to do. We have a short life and we should make the most of our conscious experience.

The idea of an eternal afterlife is what I find frightening as it would be the royal road to madness. If nature dictates that we live after death, then I'd rather take the rebirth option. Meaning, you die in a bodily form and you emerge in another - starting from scratch and with no recollection of the former.

Whatever the case, I'm sort of glad that evidence weighs in favour of annihilation.

[eroxy]

Ah I see. Interesting take. Never thought of it that way.

Anyway, I just wanted to share this book which you might be interested in.

There's this lawyer who is giving objective scientific evidence of the afterlife and is offering 1 million dollars for the person who can rebut him:

Here's the book:
http://www.victorzammit.com/book/

Here's the skeptic's challenge:
http://www.victorzammit.com/skeptics/challenge.html

[Summerlander]

Ok. I'll take a look at it later. Interesting. Thanks for sharing.